Am going to demand answers…

Regarding why I did not get the job I interviewed for.

There has not been very many interviews this year. I’ve gone on a very small handful of them.

2 of the companies I will not pursue; there are a couple more, plus that company from a few weeks ago, where the CEO told me “hr will call you” and HR did not — I am taking a ride to each of the 3 companies and am asking them what happened that I did not get the job.

Perhaps I will not get an answer. I want to go on record as one of the masses who refused to vanish into the mist. It is the principle of the thing.

28 thoughts on “Am going to demand answers…”

  1. No dice on any of this.

    Person #1 was in but busy and she would not be available for the rest of the day. I said thanks and left.

    Person #2 also was not in. I saw who was hired; it was some sour faced kid.

    I spoke my piece there and left. Maybe it was idiotic, maybe not, but I had to get it out.

    And I did not venture to see Person #3. I get the idea I’d be wasting my time with that one, too.

    I feel like a foo that I even bothered submitting a resume to any of these people. I should have been back to work eons ago and NEVER have heard of ML, SV and LW. Nor should have ever heard of their companies.

    What direction to head into now?

    I don’t know. I don’t know what I shoud do.

    Pursue finding a job?

    Anybody care to tell me what good that is going to do at this point? I’ve gotten nowhere for nearly 5 damn years. –that is how long I have been looking (a year employed while I fought like hell to find a job and get my skin and myself out of there)

  2. I’ve been looking over 6 years no kidding (2 years while still employed). I have done what you’ve said and they won’t say why I didn’t get the job. I even called a hospital that kept hiring pr jobs and kept rejecting me but she had no way to know she said. I too have seen some of the people hired over me and it makes me livid. I am not bothered when it is someone who is more experienced or older hired over me, but often it is a younger person and often foreign too. That bothers me and I actually verbally attacked a HR person for doing this because I knew I didn’t want to work there anyway. I am tired of this and often it is because I am not young enough or foreign enough for these people.

  3. We cannot say that this was a money thing at that company.

    The salary was $12 to $15 an hour. What’s the big deal here? WHY was she such a good choice for the job? And please don’t tell me “maybe she lived in that town” — what is the difference? I know a guy who daily commutes from his house in NJ to the bowels of Connecticut daily and he is never late, barring inclement weather.

    Something is very very wrong with this picture. Exactly why are these people being chosen over us? I want a very demonstrable reason for it.

    And often as not — and this might be a crappy thing to say — the foreigners that they want usually have a language barrier problem. It was exactly this way in a company I worked for; don’t ask what this one particular technician’s memos and other office communiques were like. Barely understandable. This is somebody who should not be getting a phone and somebody who should not be having lots of customer service contact with the clients.

    A guy who worked in the engineering/cad department said exactly this to the boss about “Jim” — it fell on deaf ears. I think they wanted “Jim” because he was cheap labor. (he also had quite a temper and the bosses looked the other way on that one)

  4. And I would say what you said to that person was “verbally attacking.” You spoke your piece and I am very sure you were well within reason. Certainly you are allowed to say what’s on your mind. I doubt if you threatened her or got out of control.

    The point is what’s right is right. Oh yeah, we all know there is a subjective reason why an employee is hired; you and I have seen it a million times when we’ve seen a new hire at work.

    Subjective is one thing but to overlook what is the best candidate and the best one qulaified is quite another — and when it happens again and again, one tends to think something is erratically wrong.

  5. I wasn’t nasty, just questioned things and yes I actually did start to yell because the lady was rude to me. I mean there was no reason to hire someone from a foreign country for a pr job and they had a thick accent. She kept claiming this person was more qualified but couldn’t tell me why.

  6. There may even be a cultural barrier that exists! These people have to take that into consideration.

    Maybe this person was a visaed employee and they got a great big fat tax break for hiring this individual.

    At this point, it could be the man on the moon that was hired, in each and every single one of these companies — the whole point is this: what’s happened here that NONE of us can get hired? Something is very very wrong that we can’t even seem to get through to even one of these hiring managers and get hired.

    It isn’t “us” or our “personalties” or our education, our background or our experience. We do not need to get a revamped resume or get a damn career coach to give us mock interviews. NO to all of the preceding.

    I have a friend who works for the state DOL — she has many teachers, engineers, you name it — out of work. People with many years of experience and in a lot of cases advanced degrees. Are you going to tell me that they too have a problem with personality, presentation, a bad resume or they need more education?

    Something is very very wrong with this picture.

    And I tend to point the finger at the powers that be who are doing the hiring for the jobs that we and they applied for.

  7. They get tax breaks for hiring visaed workers? That is very wrong but am not surprised. My grad school was famous for doing that, they would place the foreign students in work study jobs (tax payer funded)while denying American students. I’d like to know how it’s fair that these students never paid taxes but got money while taxpayers got rejected for the work study. Then often they hired the graduates for teaching jobs and other staff jobs, bypassing the Americans who applied. Meanwhile we keep pushing education. Why?

    I know many qualified unemployed people, including lawyers, teachers and the like. I went to a job fair 2 years ago and met a guy who had a Ph.D in a scientific field and yet he’s been unemployed. At another job fair I attended there were all these grads begging for internships at these companies. Many of these unpaid internships were jobs that shouldn’t be unpaid, like accounting, public relations, etc. Made me sick how employers were taking advantage of people.

  8. Ok, it looks like I got rejected from another job. Ugh I hate this and am desperate. I haven’t been to the dentist in 2 years and my teeth are no doubt rotting away. I haven’t been to the doctor in over 4 years and if I have a disease I will not know. For all I care anymore I would welcome death over this tragedy called my life. My computer is 10 years old and a piece of crap that often freezes for no reason. I just feel hopeless and angry because I did everything right but am unemployed while some jerk gets a job I deserved more. People tell me to change careers but to what? I am looking into nursing assistant because it’s a job that is fairly easy to get and they will train, but I have a severe phobia against blood and bodily wastes and these are common. My Ph.D dreams are reappearing where I apply for a program that pays for me to work there and then I will get a job debt free. Of course afterwards if the economy is still bad then I will be overqualified again but I have no other ideas now.

  9. I am pretty sure that’s how it works. There’s a real good reason why all the hospitals want the Filipino nurses and other allied health people versus our American trained personnel. So why shouldn’t businesses be the same with visaed workers?

    There’s a tax break or an incentive or something that they get.

    Back to the issue of everybody and their Uncle Len getting hired…but not us.

    If this keeps up, how does anybody expect us to get back to work? For some reason, we’re not the choice and I’m damned if I can figure out why I’m rejected for jobs I’m fully qualified for, jobs that I can do in my sleep with my eyes closed.

  10. Nursing assistant jobs pay CRAP. The jobs are in doctor’s offices where the pay is notoriously low. Don’t even BOTHER.

    Look in your help wanted ads and on line — you will see that nobody is hiring but that there are plenty of schools hawking their wares to get you to sign up for their crap “allied health” courses.

    And if you have a phobia to blood and/or bodily fluids, the job is not for you. Don’t waste your time or trouble.

    I would rabidly pursue this last company that turned you down. I would go the hell over there and demand to see whoever it is that was conducting the interviews. I would not stop until I attain an answer why: ask them this: “WHY did you hire who you hired” and let them give you an answer.

  11. I’m going to call them tomorrow along with a rejection I just got. I got rejected an HOUR after applying for a job. There is no way they could have looked at my job in that time, and I suspect age discrimination because this company (Horseshoe Casino part of the Caesars chain)is famous for it. In fact all of the casinos discriminate.

    I don’t want to be a nursing assistant but I need money and it’s the only thing I see hiring, except drivers.

    I know it makes no sense but why would the government give tax breaks to companies that hire foreign workers? That seems cruel but I know they get breaks to outsource so nothing surprises me with the corruption.

  12. If you become a nursing assistant, you’ll probably also need to learn Spanish, too. This is what the deal is out here: they have minimally trained stafff that’s running these doctor’s offices and all of them HAVE to speak Spanish. It’s a given in this area.

    You’ll also be employed in a job you will hate from the get go or wind up hating eventually. That’s not a good portent for you; you probably won’t last long, either, since you already are squeamish around bodily fluids.

    What happened to the self-run business you were going to run? You are better off doing that.

  13. And anything could have happened at that casino job. Maybe they “had” to post the ad because that is how personnel procedure goes, and somebody was selected already. So the posting had to be “official”ly done.

    I am not a fan of that kind of ploy. THis is leading people on.

    Maybe somebody’s girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse or relative got the job; my guess is it was filled on the inside.

    But to tell you an hour after you were there? This is just plain rotten and dirty pool! Why did they bother to have you come in, then? And to me, to reject a candidate in an hour? that person would have had to be hopeless: only interested in the money that the job offered, only interested in the benefits, applied for the job and knew nothing about the company; all they knew is that they wanted a job, was clueless or dressed very very inappropriately — or had a very definite language barrier problem: not enough English to adequately communicate with the personnel involved on the job on a day to day basis.

    Bad grammar and poor speaking skills would be another reason: their speech is peppered with double negatives, dropped g’s and bad grammar. If you can’t express yourself clearly at an interview, forget how you’ll express yourself on the job.

    I’d also outwardly reject somebody who lied on their resume. Or immedately reject somebody whose completed application was a disaster: filled with misspelled words, bad grammar, sloppy or dirty in appearance..

    Also another reason to reject a candidate immediately: their appearance: they smell. Or what they are wearing is dirty or wrinkled or just plain inappropriate for an interview.

    I very very much doubt if you fell into one or more of the above categories.

    Also reject a candidate: no career goals! They cant’ even tell you why they majored in what they majored in… and they have no goals for the future. They are also mental couch potatoes: lots of employers will ask what you do with your spare time — and you’d better tell them you have a hobby or constructive club/group that you belong to.

  14. Oh they didn’t even call me for an interview, I applied and automatic rejection. It was probably filled from within and they just posted it to make it look legit. I have been on interviews where I overheard them talking about the person who got the job. Then why call me in? I make sure I take a shower beforehand (or the night before if it’s in the morning)and look good but nothing.

    I already know Spanish and here’s the kicker, most public aid jobs now require Spanish speaking because most of those on assistance in Illinois speak Spanish. Isn’t that disturbing? It bothers me big time.

    I am working on starting my own business, I have a website too, but not sure how to go about making money. I don’t have much money to advertise though was able to add search words to the website and it comes up right away under certain words.

  15. Getting rejected in an hour from an online application could be for one of two reasons: they cancelled the listing but didn’t refresh the website, or your resume didn’t pass the keyword search.

    For about a decade, the Department of the Army relied on keyword searches of people’s resumes to make the first cut of applicants. If you were found to be qualified based on the keyword search, you would be referred a panel of human resources people to see if you made the “best qualified” selection list, which is what the hiring official would be sent. They have moved away from this system and gone back to reviewing applications manually. Some applications will be rejected automatically if they don’t have forms that are required, such as a transcript. One reason that they abandoned the keyword search to narrow the field was that presence of a keyword didn’t necessarily mean that they had the right experience. and no doubt some qualified applicants did not receive the consideration that they should have.

  16. If I were you, I’d find out by asking a live body.For all you know, the roboreply you got may be an error. Maybe it’s a glitch in the system or something else.

    There has to be a live body there. Find out by calling there and getting somebocdy live; when you get the phone labyrinth, press any ole number until they put a live body on the line.

    I have a whole list of key words that are supposed to make you a match through PeopleSoft — that’s what they use to screen resumes now, in most of those huge huge companies:
    Accelerated Administered Adapted Analyzed Approved Assembled Attained Authorized Carried Out Chaired Compiled Completed Computed Conceived Conducted Consulted Contracted Controlled Converted Coordinated Created Counseled Critiqued Delegated Debugged Developed Designed Diagnosed Directed Edited Effected Eliminated Engaged Enhanced Established Exhibited Expanded Expedited Evaluated Forecast Founded Gathered Generated Guided Illustrated Implemented Improved Increased Influenced Initiated Interpreted Interviewed Introduced Invented Investigated Launched Led Lectured Managed Marketed Maintained Monitored Motivated Negotiated Opened Operated Ordered Organized Originated Overhauled Participated Performed Persuaded Pinpointed Planned Prepared Presented Processed Produced Programmed Proposed Proved Provided Received Recommended Recorded Recruited Reduced Reinforced Reorganized Researched Resolved Revamped Reviewed Revised Revitalized Scheduled Selected Served Set Up Solved Shaped Sold Spearheaded Structured Supervised Supported Surpassed Surveyed Taught Trained Translated Updated Won

    Cut and paste the words, paste them to the bottom of your resume, make the font 3 points high and then highlight the words and make the font WHITE. The words won’t be seen but PeopleSoft will pick them up. You should get a call for an interivew.

  17. I will do that and thanks for that listing Dude. I just got off the phone with the company that puts together that website and apparently yes I am missing a keyword. He looked at how many times I applied and it was over 100! However I am in contention for one job, a low level unskilled service job and he told me to call them about that, but I told him I don’t want that job, I want the pr/marketing jobs that reject me immediately.

  18. Did you really apply over 100 times?

    Sheesh…that sounds like a glitch in their system. I don’t think anybody has ever applied 100 times for a job.

    (a job counselor gave me that tip, about adding the key words to your resume)

    I wonder if the squeeze is worth the juice in regard to that job.

  19. What reason would you find satisfactory for not being hired? For all that you know, the person who was hired is the son of one of their investors, and the son has to work as a condition of his probation.

    The sense that the fix is in is growing. What drives me crazy is seeing 200 people apply for a job, then have to wait three months for them to cancel the listing, with no one being hired.

  20. And i have seen it up close and personal many times at work as I am sure all of you have: a boss decides not to hire anybody. And never gives a reason why.

    I mentioned this on the other board: exBoss wanted sales guys and interviewed 3 people. One of the interviewees went as far as the second interview and was requested to send his references.

    The boss decided not to hire anybody. I do not know why. Meanwhile 2nd Interviewee called — twice, over a period of 3 weeks — wanting to know what happened with the job hiring process.

    Boss did not call him back; office manager thought he was an annoyance. How so? I say all in all he was very patient about it! he was doing what he had to do.

  21. As nearly as I can tell, the hiring cycle is getting longer and longer and the application required is more and more complicated. I know how the federal government hires best, so that is my reference point. It takes a month or longer to put a listing out, it remains open for several weeks (2-3, usually), then it takes another 2 weeks minimum to rate and rank the candidates and provide a list to the hiring official. My rule is that if I am not called within two weeks of being notified that I’ve made the “most qualified” list, I’m probably not going to be called because often there is an internal candidate or the hiring official just didn’t like my qualifications. Total time elapsed to hire someone is a minimum of two months.

    Even when people want my money, rather than wanting to be paid by them, follow-up is often nonexistent. I had someone from Lowe’s come over a few weeks ago to measure my house’s doors and windows for replacement. I never was called back with an estimate, and this would have been a few thousand dollars worth of work.

    What do you consider to be adequate notification that you are not going to be hired for a job? Is an e-mail enough, or do you want a letter signed by the person who would have hired you? What do you want the letter to say? Answering these questions might provide some insight into why people don’t send out “flush letters” anymore. The no-fault flush letter would say something like, “Thank you for your application and interest in XYZ Corporation. We have decided not to fill this position at this time. Your resume is not being retained for consideration for other positions.”

  22. If you’re an owner of a small company — and that is the majority of those hiring — if you like the person, you’ll waste no time in hiring that person.

    I’ve seen it time and time again and that is how I have gotten my job offers: either on the spot, when I’ve returned home from the interview (sometimes the message is waiting for me) or at best, 2 or 3 days later. Never does it take longer than that.

    And I’ve called companies in a day or 2, with a question for the hiring manager, and the job was filled by that time. Sometimes I luck out…and the person who got the job answers the phone.

    I don’t believe a hiring manager when I hear “to be fair I have to talk to the rest of the candidates.” That’s now the new “thanks for your time but you are not a candidate.”

  23. Wanting to interview the rest of the pool has nothing to do with fairness. It has everything to do with wanting to get the best candidate for the job. How “best” is defined is up to the person doing the hiring, but I suspect that “best” is defined as broadest possible relevant skill set for the least amount of money. They might want factors that have nothing to do with the job, such as someone who lives 5 miles away, although they could screen for that with reasonable confidence by looking at the address on the resumes. Even a post office box is useful in this way, because few people will take a post office box other than at the closeest location to their home unless they moved to town fairly recently.

    True, if they are interested, the offer usually cones rapidly, particularly in small firms. I believe that there is a perception on the part of employers that if they wait a while, someone better will be willing to work for them at a lower wage.

  24. I’ve come to the conclusion that to many employers “the best” is the person who answers the psych tests the best. Often they don’t even ask to look at my portfolio but instead ask me questions about how I dealt with certain issues.

  25. Any idea how many times I’ve heard the interviewer complain about “distance” of applicants? Guy, what is the difference? As long as the employee is on time daily! What do you care if they are from around the corner or around the world, then, if they are on time each day?

    And as for answering the questions the best: hah. Maybe the person took the same exam more than a few times so right away the test is invalidated. So what good is the test, then?

  26. And if distance is so important, don’t call the applicant. Take those that you know are within a 20 minute drive tops, rush hour traffic included in the commute to the company.

    And I can’t tell you how many times I have been asked “how long does it take you to get here?” I’ve always considered this one a waste of time question. The ones who ask this question are the very local interviewers, those within a 10 mile radius from my home. Why are you so concerned with what’s a 20 minute commute tops? You should be more concerned with my skill set and whether or not the job is within my scope of knowledge.

  27. I’ve gotten rejected for that too. I live 30 minutes from most good companies, I live an hour south of Chicago and much closer to other fairly big cities. I tell them that I have a car so I have no problem driving there. I’m not crazy about driving an hour when we get horrible snow (and we do)but the rest of the year I have no issue driving an hour if I am making a lot of money.

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